Puanani Calvillo: Moving Toward Possibility

In this special episode, Rose J. Percy speaks with Puanani Rosario Poti Calvillo from a live recording at FTE’s Christian Leadership Forum. Puanani talks about her identity as a partner, teacher, mother, and spiritual director and how wearing a lot of different hats helps her connect with people. She lives out her call and ministry by creating spaces for BIPOC folx to lean into the wisdom of their own bodies.

Puanani is a proud Samoan Ilocana from Southern California. She is a spiritual director, facilitator, educator and weight lifter. She is a former elementary school teacher and co-led El Puente Community Church with her husband Jonathan in their beloved city of Santa Ana, a bilingual neighborhood ministry centered on healing, mentorship, accompaniment and community care. You can find out more about Puanani’s spiritual practice at puananirosario.com.

Rose J. Percy is a womanist theopoet whose work engages theologies of imagination, critical pedagogy, and Black literature to birth spaces for rest, belonging, and community care. She is the creator and host of the podcast, Dear Soft Black Woman.

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Transcript

Patrick: Hey, it's Dr. Reyes here from the Sound of the Genuine. If you enjoy this podcast, do us a favor and leave a five-star review. 

This week's episode, we have a special guest host, Rose J Percy from Dear Soft Black Woman, another podcast that you should definitely check out. Rose will be joined by a close friend and colleague to many of us here at FTE, Nani Calvillo, who is a spiritual director, facilitator, educator, and weightlifter. She is passionate about access to trauma informed, affordable, liberative, spiritual accompaniment for BIPOC and community leaders and first-generation students in higher education. 

This episode was recorded live at FTE’s Christian Leadership Forum in Atlanta this summer. Welcome Rose and Nani to the Sound of the Genuine.

Rose: You are listening to the Sound of the Genuine Podcast. My name is Rose J Percy. I host a podcast called Dear Soft Black Woman, and that podcast is a space for conversations and affirmations that affirm rest, boundaries, and reimagining new identities and vocations for black women and those who listen and journey alongside of us. And I feel like both podcasts, the Sound of the Genuine and Dear Soft Black Women are similar in nature - where it's all about storytelling and trying to figure out like who we are and who we are becoming. And so I guess that'll be my first question. Our guest today, Pua Nani Calvillo. Welcome. So can you tell us a little bit about who you are and who you are becoming?

Puanani: Mm. Thank you so much for pronouncing my name so beautifully. So much power in being called by my name, my given name - the name that I've reclaimed. Puanani is actually Hawaiian for beautiful flower. It is both Pua, which is my dad's name and that means flower, and Nani, which means beautiful. Who I am. I'm just gonna start there with my name. It is just so hard to start with me, I wanna dig back to why my parents got this name. My mom was born and raised in Hawaii in Ewa, and she is the daughter of my grandfather Simón. He immigrated from the IIocos in the Philippines and was brought over to work in the sugar cane fields.

And so she was born there in Hawaii and she lived with other Filipinos and also immersed herself in the Hawaiian culture. And so she was raised learning the Hawaiian language and a lot of the traditions. And then she married my dad, who is Samoan. So just the Pacifica connections, it just felt right to name me that. 

So, yeah, when I think about who I am, I think so much about my roots and where I come from. So when my mom moved from Hawaii to LA, she met my dad in an area in South Bay - LA where there are predominantly Samoan, Mexican, and Filipino communities. Yeah, so that's where my family's from and gosh, I think about the coming together of two cultures and a lot of my story comes from living in the in between. And I don't know if we can talk about the fact that we're here... 

Rose: Oh, absolutely. 

Puanani: …at this conference and I think that one of the most beautiful thing about being at this conference is that I'm meeting so many people who live in the in between and have probably in the past five years found my power in this space.

Rose: Hmm. Yes. And I think part of what you're naming is like the power is not just in negotiating your in betweenness through simplifying, essentializing your identity to make it simpler and digestible for others, but being able to hold it all in fullness. And it's not so much a tension, like in academia, people just love to use the word tension for everything.

And I'm like, it's not a tension sometimes. Sometimes it's more of like, the tension is more of like what you'd see in jazz. Where the notes may not always, create a harmony, but the dissonance itself is something to be celebrated for its beauty. and in a lot of ways that tension, it's not tension that in betweenness is a space where you are holding hands with both of these things and finding your own intimacy within that, to name and claim who you are.

So that's really, really cool. I would love for you to talk more about how you see that beautiful holding and intimacy between identities and worlds, in your family. 

Puanani: Yeah. So I actually was unpacking with a friend before coming here, and I, I thought, you know, we learned so much, especially coming up in academia about code switching, right? But as I've entered into this season of life, I've realized like I like to enter fully who I am all the time.

Like I'm always a mom. I'm always on as a mom. It's a part of the lens That I have, that I look out into, into the world, even in what I do. I am a spiritual director. I am a teacher, I am a wife, I am multiethnic. Um, I come from a blue class family. I have, done work in many communities, and so that's the lens that I look out into the world. And so that is who I am all the time. And I'm not myself when I'm not doing that, when I'm like choosing one of those to be.

Rose: Compartmentalizing.

Puanani: Right

Rose: Yeah.

Puanani: So authentically coming into spaces it's like being all of those things. And yeah, sometimes I'm more one, a little bit more one than the other and I can shift you know. But yeah, I think that being in this space is made it really easy for me. I mean I'm not gonna say always easy, but very comfortable doing the work that I do. It's very natural to connect to people. It's natural to connect with who they are, to connect to their essence. I love listening to stories. That's what I do. And I just feel like wearing so many of these hats has really helped me to be able to see people

Rose: Yeah, I definitely feel seen by you so thank you for being the person you are in the world. And I'm reflecting on what it means for both of us to be on this journey this week together. We are at the Christian Leadership Forum, which is run by FTE, which stands for the Forum for Theological Exploration, which I'm sure people who listen to this podcast already know - but in case people who don't are listening. And this week we've been talking a lot about and experiencing different modes of coming to our own sense of vocation and understanding of like what that means. And so I would love to hear about how you've journeyed through this week and not just what you're learning, but at least for me, I've noticed how certain things have felt in my body as I've moved out of spaces between sessions.

There's this newness that I have to sit with. My spirit keeps getting caught on things and I have to linger on. And so I would love to hear about what your spirit is being caught on this week as you're encountering...you're hearing so much about vocation, but you're also thinking about your own. So what has that journey been like for you?

Puanani: You know, if anything, I have felt so affirmed here. Last night I was in a circle with friends and one of the young women amongst us is discerning. And there were three of us around her speaking like life into her and being like, "What you are doing right now is your calling, it is your ministry. It doesn't have to look traditional. It doesn't have to look like the spaces that you're used to. You don't need those spaces to name and value what you do for it to be ministry and your calling." And so those are a lot of the spaces that we've been in. And I was like, as I'm a part of this, you know, this collective group of Asian women last night we found each other here and we were like, Yes! We were speaking life into each other. But as I was a part of that, I also was like no Nani, what you do also is your calling, it also is your ministry. 

Before going into spaces I like to set intentions and so before coming here the intention was to be. I just want to be. I want to pay attention. I want to sit and just receive what is here and be open to the Holy Spirit's movement, to hear God and the stories of those around me. And as I'm thinking that I'm going to like hear people tell me their stories, at our lunch today I had two people just like tell me oh, you have this very...it is mothering, but a mothering spirit. But it's a very strong looking into who you are/calling out spirit. You must make people feel so seen. And I'm like, I hope that's what people feel when they're around me. Thank you so much for saying that. And this is just lunch. This is just because of observing. But to be in a space where everyone is in a discerning place and open to the spirit and listening. Like that is happening at our lunch. "I hear in you this," I'm like, are you kidding me? This is a magical place 

Rose: And it's not the place, it's the people who are here. 

Puanani: Right? And we are the church, right?

Rose: Yes.

Puanani: We get to, in the spaces that we are, represent like all of this. And it reminds me of what it really means to be who we are. So if we really are walking in our calling you know then I just feel like in that, that we're being true. We are being true in the places that we're in.

Rose: I feel like you just gave us so much to think about, and linger on. and I'm curious to know, Just like personally, what you feel like is next for you, or what you want to see next that you're excited about?

Puanani: Yes. So, these are new beginnings for me and for my family. We're making a big move from Boston to Atlanta and I'm excited for space. When I think about space, I also think about the word that is blasting, you know, over this weekend, which is possibility.

Rose: Yes.

Puanani: You know I've just been thinking about, oh, I'm looking forward to Atlanta because of space. Everyone's like, “What are you so excited about?” I'm like, space because in Boston, you know… 

Rose: We're all on top of each other. Not making eye contact. 

Puanani: And we're and trying to live in that small space. And don't get me wrong, like so much has happened in that small space, so many memories have been made in that small space. And I honor all that happen in Boston and all of my formation in Boston and the ways that God spoke to me, spoke into me through the people around me and the community around me.

But I am a teacher. My master's is in teaching and I did walk away from teaching. I was burnt out seven years ago and I decided to stay home full time with my children. As I was discerning during that seven year period, I had a friend that would really observe the way that I would question her or the way that I would talk to my children. She saw me in some like ministry capacities and she was like, “have you ever thought about being a spiritual director?” And I was like, no. I don't really know what that is. She was like, “you actually just do it naturally.” And I was like, “Really?” She's like, “Well, I really think that you should think about this program.”

So I went through this certification through Still Harbor and we're trained, at the intersection of accompanying those who are doing the work of social justice. And so like how do we accompany those on the front lines and all that they hold and the traumas? And so you know, I did it during the pandemic and then when my son decided, I was gonna say, when my son decided to finally go to school, actually when my son turned five and could be in school full time, I decided to…

Rose: He was like, “Mom, I think it's time.”

Puanani: “I'm ready to turn five and finally go to school for free.” They were asking for substitute teachers and I was like, you know what? Yay, I can get paid for being with kids all day and utilize my masters, you know, and go back into teaching. So I did that about three days a week this past school year. And the teachers would just come and sit with me and unpack. And it was helpful obviously that they know me because my children – they are their teachers and so yeah. Whether it be in their classroom when I'm like checking in, I would ask them, “Are you taking a rest day? Let me sub for you if you need that.” Or if it was just me eating lunch at the teachers lounge and they sit and just talk about like the stresses of teaching.

And I just thought what space is there for you? And many of the teachers have very strong spiritual lives and they know that I'm Christian. They will also talk about church and what's going on in their lives and what they're doing. And so it was very easy conversations about spirituality and where they're at and so I just started thinking about how I can expand what I'm doing. Right now I'm just doing one-on-ones because that's just the capacity of my life in Boston. But I have a new dream and I started imagining what it would look like to build my practice and to create spaces for listening.

Rose: Mm-hmm 

Puanani: For teachers to have a listening circle and listen to each other, to facilitate facilitate those spaces and to allow for them to hear themselves and each other. And so I get to integrate the two things that I love. Education for me has been so impactful and has created opportunities and allowed for me to be where I'm at - to have the privilege to say, you know what, I wanna take some time to figure out…I mean, what a privilege it is, you know? 

Rose: And it shouldn't be! 

Puanani: It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. And the journey of getting here. For so long, I was in so many ministry positions where it was like…I'm a three. On the Enneagram 

Rose: We're next door. We're neighbors. I'm a four. 

Puanani: I am the oldest daughter in a Samoan family. And I see a need and I meet it. I see a need and I meet it. In all spaces that I'm in. I'm very good at learning to be good wherever I need to be. 

Rose: I know that life. 

Puanani: It took me staying home and having time to really reflect and say like, man, I'm really good at a lot of things, but that does not mean that's my calling. And there was no joy there. There's no joy in any of those spaces, and a lot of people were affected and helped, but for me, there wasn't joy. And so I am almost 40 and can finally say, I'm doing what I wanna do with joy.

Rose: Hallelujah.

Puanani: Amen. Hallelujah, that I finally got here, but I'm like really hoping that that's not true for my children or for others around me and in the spaces that I'm in.

Rose: Yes. I'm thinking about how what you've described reminds me of just, you know, what it's like to be in the wilderness. To go down these paths where you're often the first or the only. And when you're in that space, especially, like as you've named your identities and the spaces you've had to be in, like for me, being Haitian American and a black woman, having to be in spaces that I'm in, like when we go through that wilderness journey, all we can really do is leave behind clues for the next, those will come after us.

So they know that someone has been there before and that's kind of what you're doing in your family and how you're raising your kids. You're leaving them clues. You're leaving them places to rest in that wilderness space, because you've had to build them for yourself. Because they weren't there for you.

Puanani: Oh my gosh. So good. That's so good, Rose. It's so true. We had the conversation again over a meal about…some of us were like, we're so tired of building. We're so tired of pioneering. I'm so tired. But at the same time, I'm like, but if we don't build it, like who will? I had another conversation that was like, well, if you don't do it, they're not gonna do it the way you wanna do it.

Rose: That's such a woman of color thing to say,

Puanani: 100%! You're not gonna be able to, yes -  You're not gonna be able to get across the message that you want to get across or be impactful the way that you want to be impactful. So I said, okay, I received that, sis. Thank you. So yes, you're right. You're right. I hope that as I am living into my calling, that my children will get to see that they can live into theirs and that they…I don't like to use the word “permission”, not that my children ever need permission.

Rose: Invitation, maybe?

Puanani: Invitation is good! To live into their calling, their gifts. Or to even have space to process that.

Rose: And to lean into what feels good rather than having to learn to be good, like you've just said. Just for the sake of putting on the mask that pleases everyone else. 

Puanani: Yes 

Rose: And that's a hard space. It's a hard space to cultivate the self understanding, to guide others down that path. But more power to you. I believe in you. I can do it! 

Puanani:  So I ran a triathlon, a sprint triathlon, and one thing that I said during this process is that I really want them to see how hard it is for me and that sometimes I mess up but it's okay. And that like when I'm hurt that I take care of myself but it doesn't keep me from like continuing on. I want them to see me rest. I think it's okay for our kids to see us mess up. I hope so. Cause it happens a lot. 

Rose: And they also need to see you mess up so that when they do, they can come to you. I mean, my parents, I'm a pastor's kid and so I grew up in a family where messing up, especially publicly, was not okay. Like it wasn't allowed. And so when I was going through my own things growing up, I had to keep a lot to myself because I wasn't sure I could come to my parents for it. And it wasn't until after graduating college that I was hearing stories of things like, Oh, I wish I had done this differently. And I'm like, you know how liberating that would've been to hear as a teenager?

Puanani: Yeah. Yeah, I like to call myself out in front of my daughter, my oldest. As we're navigating her being a preteen. There are a lot of new, strong emotions that we're navigating together for the first time. And I mess up a lot and I will tell her, “my bad.” Like that was not okay. Unfortunately mom is still learning along with you and I'm sorry. I'm sorry that this has to happen but this is what it is. I'm learning alongside you how to be in this season with you. 

Rose: That brings us back to accompaniment. That's really cool. Are there any like lingering of things, bits of dreams or wonderings that you're carry with you, as we end our time at this forum and go into our regular lives. Yeah. What are your hopes, you're entering a new season as this one closing?

Puanani: I really want to move in ways that are not out of fear but in ways that are fueled by like joy. It's really easy for me to get stuck and to just go back into like these habits of like I'm gonna do this because it's safe. You know, I really wanted to also talk about how important movement is to me, even in my body. Also I'm hoping that through accompanying people with their spiritual journey that I can be a part of accompanying them in the way that they can connect to God by moving their bodies and connecting to God through those movements. That is a big part of my spiritual practice and I'm hoping to also accompany… specifically, I work with women of color, so in those spaces and help them even reconnect to the ways that their ancestors have moved. 

Rose: I love that. And it's gonna bring so much liberation to so many people who need it. And as someone who follows you on Instagram, inspired by how you embody that in practice movement, I just wanna thank you. I'm so blessed to know you and to be part of your journey and blessed to have had this experience with you.

And I'm excited, especially for all the new connections we're making, that continue to affirm our worth, our dignity, our humanity, and who are being called into being as we go forward. So thank you Nani…Puanani, for being here. 

Puanani: Thank you so much Rose.

Patrick: I want to thank Rose and Nani for spending some time with us here on the Sound of the Genuine. Please do us a favor and support their work. Head on over to Dear Soft Black Woman and listen to Rose's podcasts. 

And if you're looking for a spiritual director, make sure to check out Nani's work, we'll provide a link in the description. I want to thank my team Elsie Barnhart, Heather Wallace and @siryalibeats for producing and putting this show into the world. Thank you again for listening to the Sound of the Genuine.